{"id":16117,"date":"2021-03-07T14:06:00","date_gmt":"2021-03-07T13:06:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/schirnmag\/critical-land-mythos-der-unberuehrten-natur-2\/"},"modified":"2025-01-27T16:50:28","modified_gmt":"2025-01-27T15:50:28","slug":"critical-land-mythos-der-unberuehrten-natur-2","status":"publish","type":"magazin-artikel","link":"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/schirnmag\/critical-land-mythos-der-unberuehrten-natur-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Critical land. The myth of untouched nature"},"content":{"rendered":"<section class='wp-block-ho-pattern ' data-pattern='ho\/header-magazin-audio'>\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-ho-div\">\n\n<div  class='container-fluid sizes-width-fill'>\n\n<div  class='row'>\n\n<div  class='col col-xs-12 margin-bottom-4 text-align-center'  data-motion-text=\"{&quot;child&quot;:&quot;.ho-sd-mag-h2&quot;,&quot;force&quot;:true,&quot;delay&quot;:0,&quot;speed&quot;:0.9,&quot;ease&quot;:&quot;expo.out&quot;}\">\n<h1 class='ho-sd-mag-h2' style=\"white-space: normal;\">Critical land.<br \/>\nThe myth of untouched nature<\/h1>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n<div  class='container-fluid mobile-margin-bottom-3 sizes-width-fill'>\n\n<div  class='row'>\n\n<div  class='col col-xs-10 col-xs-offset-1 col-md-4 col-md-offset-4'  data-motion-text=\"{&quot;child&quot;:&quot;.lazy-media-motion-wrapper&quot;,&quot;force&quot;:true,&quot;delay&quot;:0.3,&quot;speed&quot;:0.9,&quot;ease&quot;:&quot;expo.out&quot;}\">\n\n<div  class='lazy-media-motion-wrapper'>\n\n<div  class='lazy-media-play-content-wrapper margin-bottom-5'>\n<div class=\"wp-block wp-block-ho-flash \" style=\"\">\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"flash-animation-data\" data-animations='[{\"id\":\"full\",\"name\":\"Full\",\"types\":[{\"name\":\"y\",\"start\":\"-5\",\"end\":\"5\"}]},{\"id\":\"in\",\"name\":\"In\",\"types\":[]},{\"id\":\"out\",\"name\":\"Out\",\"types\":[]}]' data-target=\".lazy-media-contents\" data-animationsmobile='[{\"id\":\"full\",\"name\":\"Full\",\"types\":[{\"name\":\"y\",\"start\":\"-5\",\"end\":\"5\"}]},{\"id\":\"in\",\"name\":\"In\",\"types\":[]},{\"id\":\"out\",\"name\":\"Out\",\"types\":[]}]'>\n\t\t\t\t\t<flash-animation inline-template>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"flash-animation\" :class=\"classes\" ref=\"layer\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<figure itemscope itemtype=\"http:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" class=\"lazy-media-inline \" role=\"group\" aria-describedby=\"media_Q7Q1bn\">\n<script type=\"application\/json\">{\n\"id\" : 16015,\n\"sizes\" : {\"medium\":{\"file\":\"CriticalLand1_Final-300x138.jpg\",\"width\":300,\"height\":138,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":9977},\"large\":{\"file\":\"CriticalLand1_Final-1024x471.jpg\",\"width\":1024,\"height\":471,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":87511},\"medium_large\":{\"file\":\"CriticalLand1_Final-768x354.jpg\",\"width\":768,\"height\":354,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":53101},\"1536x1536\":{\"file\":\"CriticalLand1_Final-1536x707.jpg\",\"width\":1536,\"height\":707,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":175477},\"small\":{\"file\":\"CriticalLand1_Final-440x203.jpg\",\"width\":440,\"height\":203,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":19194},\"semi\":{\"file\":\"CriticalLand1_Final-580x267.jpg\",\"width\":580,\"height\":267,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":31568},\"mobile\":{\"file\":\"CriticalLand1_Final-720x332.jpg\",\"width\":720,\"height\":332,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":46928},\"hd\":{\"file\":\"CriticalLand1_Final-1280x589.jpg\",\"width\":1280,\"height\":589,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":129514},\"original\":{\"file\":\"CriticalLand1_Final.jpg\",\"width\":1920,\"height\":884}},\n\"alt\" : \"\",\n\"path\" : \"\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2024\\\/12\\\/\",\n\"video\" : null,\n\"autoplay\" : null,\n\"youtube\" : null,\n\"youtubelabel\" : \"play\",\n\"brightness\" : 100,\n\"crop\" : {\"x\":0.5,\"y\":0.5},\n\"background\" : true,\n\"scale\" : 1,\n\"zoom\" : false,\n\"annotations\" : null}<\/script>\n<div class=\"height-container \" style=\"padding-bottom:66.67%; 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Mythos der unber&uuml;hrten Natur\",\n\t\t\t\t\"description\"  : \"\"\t\t\t\t}\n\t\t\t<\/script>\n\n\t\t\t<div class=\"audio-player-row audio-player-top\">\n\t<div class=\"audio-player-btns\" :class=\"{ playing: playing }\" >\n\t\t<button type=\"button\" class=\"ho-button is-secondary color-bg-is-white is-large audio-player-btns-play\" @click=\"play\" aria-label=\"Audio Abspielen\">\n\t\t\t<span class=\"ho-button-label\">Play<\/span>\n\t\t<\/button>\n\n\t\t<button type=\"button\" class=\"ho-button is-secondary color-bg-is-white is-large audio-player-btns-pause\" @click=\"pause\" aria-label=\"Audio pausieren\">\n\t\t\t<span class=\"ho-button-label\">Stop<\/span>\n\t\t<\/button>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\t\t<\/figure>\n\t<\/standard-audio>\n\n\t<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n<div  class='video-audio-time hide-while-playing'>\n<h6 class='video-audio-time-label' style=\"white-space: normal;\">33:23<\/h6>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<div  class='container-fluid margin-bottom-7'>\n\n<div  class='row'>\n\n<div  class='col col-xs-12 col-md-4 col-md-offset-8 margin-bottom-5'><section class='wp-block-ho-pattern ' data-pattern='ho\/magazin-header-eigenschaften'>\n\n<div  class='magazine-header-props text-align-right'>\n\n<div  class='container-fluid cf-rem-max-width cf-side-1 cf-gutter-1'>\n\n<div  class='row'>\n\n<div  class='col col-xs-12'><div class=\"wp-block-ho-slot \"><p>03\/07\/2021<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n<div  class='row'>\n\n<div  class='col col-xs-12'>\n\n<div  class='margin-bottom-3'>\n\n<div  class='flex-align-center-right'>\n<div class=\"wp-block-ho-slot \"><p>27 min reading time<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-ho-slot \"><div class=\"container-fluid cf-rem-max-width cf-side-1 cf-gutter-1\"><div class=\"row\"><div class=\"col col-xs-12\"><div class=\"margin-bottom-3\"><div class=\"components-image-text-person-image-small-group flex-align-top-right\"><div class=\"col col-xs-12\"><div class=\"components-image-text-persons-line\"><span class=\"ho-sd-body\">Curator:<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/beteiligte\/martina-weinhart-en\/\" class=\"components-image-text-person-image-small\"><div class=\"components-image-text-person-image-small-text ho-sd-body\">Martina Weinhart<\/div><div class=\"components-image-text-person-image-small-image\"><figure itemscope itemtype=\"http:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" class=\"lazy-media-inline \" role=\"group\" aria-describedby=\"media_69de31ab03de2\"><script type=\"application\/json\">{\n\"id\" : 30000,\n\"sizes\" : 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: \"\",\n\"path\" : \"\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2025\\\/01\\\/\",\n\"video\" : null,\n\"autoplay\" : null,\n\"youtube\" : null,\n\"youtubelabel\" : \"play\",\n\"brightness\" : 100,\n\"crop\" : null,\n\"background\" : false,\n\"scale\" : 1,\n\"zoom\" : false,\n\"annotations\" : null}<\/script><div class=\"height-container \" style=\"padding-bottom:125%;   \"><div class=\"height-container-contents lazy-media-contents\"><div class=\"lazy-media-preview\" style=\"background-image: url('data:image\/jpeg;base64,\/9j\/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD\/\/gA7Q1JFQVRPUjogZ2QtanBlZyB2MS4wICh1c2luZyBJSkcgSlBFRyB2NjIpLCBxdWFsaXR5ID0gOTAK\/9sAQwADAgIDAgIDAwMDBAMDBAUIBQUEBAUKBwcGCAwKDAwLCgsLDQ4SEA0OEQ4LCxAWEBETFBUVFQwPFxgWFBgSFBUU\/9sAQwEDBAQFBAUJBQUJFA0LDRQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQU\/8AAEQgAHQAYAwEiAAIRAQMRAf\/EAB8AAAEFAQEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAABAgMEBQYHCAkKC\/\/EALUQAAIBAwMCBAMFBQQEAAABfQECAwAEEQUSITFBBhNRYQcicRQygZGhCCNCscEVUtHwJDNicoIJChYXGBkaJSYnKCkqNDU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6g4SFhoeIiYqSk5SVlpeYmZqio6Slpqeoqaqys7S1tre4ubrCw8TFxsfIycrS09TV1tfY2drh4uPk5ebn6Onq8fLz9PX29\/j5+v\/EAB8BAAMBAQEBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAABAgMEBQYHCAkKC\/\/EALURAAIBAgQEAwQHBQQEAAECdwABAgMRBAUhMQYSQVEHYXETIjKBCBRCkaGxwQkjM1LwFWJy0QoWJDThJfEXGBkaJicoKSo1Njc4OTpDREVGR0hJSlNUVVZXWFlaY2RlZmdoaWpzdHV2d3h5eoKDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uLj5OXm5+jp6vLz9PX29\/j5+v\/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8AmurwQRSSspcRqXKjqQKxf+Fj\/YbGe4utDkWKYDbjOUX1rrtA8Ba34uVvsFqzQEFWlbhcfWoJvhPrurSLoj6e8cMfyPM7HGAe1fBYCjUdNyUG7+R+mY2dNzSlNK3n1OZe6Eyh1b5GAYfQ0V3mtfAHxFplqHtPLu0C8Ipw2PpRXmVMLXhJpwZ6NPE0ZxT50fUGiTabp8A060SOCOEbWjTt71VfX7GDWRaYV5HOAVHWvF\/EPxQutNktha2UMMsqYaQMSTzWx4PsJ7m7\/tW6vZLiZl3qmMKpr76Fd35KfT8j4h0Vy88+v5mv4++IsHhfV\/PmLi2T5PkGcGivLfi3qr2fh+\/mKCV2J5Y9OaK4q+NjRlyyZ10MG60eZI\/\/2Q=='); background-position: 50% 50%; height: 100%; width: 100%;\"><\/div><div class=\"lazy-media loaded\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/2024-portrait-martinaweinhart-final-web-01-1536x1920.jpg\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/2024-portrait-martinaweinhart-final-web-01-1536x1920.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/2024-portrait-martinaweinhart-final-web-01-240x300.jpg 240w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/2024-portrait-martinaweinhart-final-web-01-819x1024.jpg 819w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/2024-portrait-martinaweinhart-final-web-01-768x960.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/2024-portrait-martinaweinhart-final-web-01-1229x1536.jpg 1229w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/2024-portrait-martinaweinhart-final-web-01-1638x2048.jpg 1638w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/2024-portrait-martinaweinhart-final-web-01-352x440.jpg 352w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/2024-portrait-martinaweinhart-final-web-01-464x580.jpg 464w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/2024-portrait-martinaweinhart-final-web-01-576x720.jpg 576w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/2024-portrait-martinaweinhart-final-web-01-1024x1280.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 763px) 100vw, (min-width: 764px) and (max-width: 1023px) 100vw, (min-width: 1024px) 100vw\" alt=\"\" loading=\"lazy\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/figure><\/div><\/a><\/div><\/div><div class=\"col col-xs-12\"><div class=\"components-image-text-persons-line\"><span class=\"ho-sd-body\">Host:<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/beteiligte\/sylvia-cunningham-en\/\" class=\"components-image-text-person-image-small\"><div class=\"components-image-text-person-image-small-text ho-sd-body\">Sylvia Cunningham<\/div><\/a><\/div><\/div><div class=\"col col-xs-12\"><div class=\"components-image-text-persons-line\"><span class=\"ho-sd-body\">Illustrator:<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/beteiligte\/oriana-fenwick-en\/\" class=\"components-image-text-person-image-small\"><div class=\"components-image-text-person-image-small-text ho-sd-body\">Oriana Fenwick<\/div><\/a><\/div><\/div><div class=\"col col-xs-12\"><div class=\"components-image-text-persons-line\"><span class=\"ho-sd-body\">Speaker:<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/beteiligte\/carmen-robertson-en\/\" class=\"components-image-text-person-image-small\"><div class=\"components-image-text-person-image-small-text ho-sd-body\">Carmen Robertson<\/div><div class=\"components-image-text-person-image-small-image\"><figure itemscope itemtype=\"http:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" class=\"lazy-media-inline \" role=\"group\" aria-describedby=\"media_69de31ab04839\"><script type=\"application\/json\">{\n\"id\" : 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background-position: 50% 50%; height: 100%; width: 100%;\"><\/div><div class=\"lazy-media loaded\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/383496-m-6f7d65732d110582265b4cad614a202e-mp3-image-1920x1920.jpg\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/383496-m-6f7d65732d110582265b4cad614a202e-mp3-image-1920x1920.jpg 1920w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/383496-m-6f7d65732d110582265b4cad614a202e-mp3-image-300x300.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/383496-m-6f7d65732d110582265b4cad614a202e-mp3-image-1024x1024.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/383496-m-6f7d65732d110582265b4cad614a202e-mp3-image-150x150.jpg 150w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/383496-m-6f7d65732d110582265b4cad614a202e-mp3-image-768x768.jpg 768w, 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col-xs-12\"><div class=\"margin-bottom-3\"><\/div><\/div><div class=\"col col-xs-12\"><div class=\"wp-block-ho-div\"><div class=\"ho-tag-group flex-align-top-right\"><div class=\"ho-tag is-tertiary\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/hauptkategorie\/diskurs-en\/\" class=\"ho-tag-label\">Discourse<\/a><\/div><div class=\"ho-tag is-tertiary\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/hauptkategorie\/podcast-en\/\" class=\"ho-tag-label\">Podcast<\/a><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><div class=\"col col-xs-12\"><div class=\"wp-block-ho-div\"><div class=\"ho-tag-group flex-align-top-right\"><div class=\"ho-tag is-primary\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/tag\/exhibition\/\" class=\"ho-tag-label\">Exhibition<\/a><\/div><div class=\"ho-tag is-primary\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/tag\/society\/\" class=\"ho-tag-label\">Society<\/a><\/div><div class=\"ho-tag is-primary\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/tag\/art-history\/\" class=\"ho-tag-label\">Art History<\/a><\/div><div class=\"ho-tag is-primary\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/tag\/postcolonialism\/\" class=\"ho-tag-label\">Postcolonialism<\/a><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/section><\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n<div  class='row'>\n\n<div  class='col col-xs-12 last-xs col-md-8'>\t<p class='ho-sd-h4'>An interview with Lakota-Scottish art historian Carmen Robertson on Land vs Landscape. The first episode of our new podcast series with Indigenous perspectives on art, nature, decolonization and climate change.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/section>\n\n<section class='wp-block-ho-pattern toggle-optional-headline show-optional-headline' data-pattern='ho\/text-magazin-related-artikel'>\n\n<div  class='container-fluid margin-bottom-7'>\n\n<div  class='row ho-pattern-optional-headline'>\n\n<div  class='col col-xs-12 padding-bottom-3'>\n<h4 class='ho-sd-mag-h3' style=\"white-space: normal;\">Transcript<\/h4>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n<div  class='row'>\n\n<div  class='col col-xs-12 col-md-6'>\t<p class='ho-sd-body'><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> Welcome to \u201cCritical land\u201d. I\u2019m your host, Sylvia Cunningham.This is the first episode of a new English-language podcast from the Schirn Kunsthalle, debuting along\u00adside its latest exhi\u00adbi\u00adtion, \u201cMagnetic North: Imag\u00adining Canada in Painting 1910-1940.\u201d This exhi\u00adbi\u00adtion, co-orga\u00adnized by the Art Gallery of Ontario and the National Gallery of Canada, exam\u00adines modern Cana\u00addian land\u00adscape painting from a contem\u00adpo\u00adrary stand\u00adpoint. \u201cMagnetic North\u201d comprises 90 paint\u00adings and 40 sketches from the Group of Seven, a collec\u00adtive formed in 1920. It also features works from Algo\u00adnquin-French artist Caro\u00adline Monnet and Anishi\u00adnaabe film\u00admaker Lisa Jackson.In this podcast series, \u201cCritical land\u201d, we\u2019ll draw from some of the themes in \u201cMagnetic North\u201d to go beyond what is displayed on the gallery walls. Through inter\u00adviews with Indige\u00adnous artists, activists and scholars, we\u2019ll connect the exhi\u00adbi\u00adtion to art and envi\u00adron\u00admental move\u00adments going on today. In this episode, you\u2019ll hear from a Lakota-Scot\u00adtish professor in Canada whose research and teaching focuses on contem\u00adpo\u00adrary Indige\u00adnous art history.You\u2019ll also hear from the curator of \u201cMagnetic North\u201d about the chal\u00adlenges of presenting the Group of Seven to German and Euro\u00adpean audi\u00adences for the first time. So that is our starting point today. The Group of Seven. Picture this. Vast, rugged scenery, stretching on for miles. A single tree, standing stead\u00adfast in the cold and wind, despite all odds. Seem\u00adingly untouched wilder\u00adness, as far as the eye can see. This is Canada in the early to mid 1900s, through the eyes and brush\u00adstrokes of seven painters. More specif\u00adi\u00adcally, a collec\u00adtive of white, male painters who called them\u00adselves the Group of Seven. Their motto? \u201cLess of a studio, more of a forest.\u201dHere\u2019s Martina Wein\u00adhart, curator at the Schirn Kunsthalle in Frank\u00adfurt.\u00a0<br><br><strong>Martina Weinhart:<\/strong> They camped, they fished, they were portaging with their canoes over the hills and stayed outside. They really wanted to be these \u201ctough guys.\u201d\u00a0<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> Wein\u00adhart says this group of painters did not want to be the kind of \u201cintel\u00adlec\u00adtuals\u201d who met for drinks and social\u00adized in the city. The Group of Seven wanted to make art that was different from the art in Europe. So did they succeed? Well, that is compli\u00adcated.<br><br><strong>Martina Weinhart:<\/strong> They thought of them\u00adselves of Candian artists but half of them were from England and a lot of them were trained in Europe, visited Paris, Berlin even. They were very well-educated in Euro\u00adpean art history. If you look at their pictures, there are certain echoes of German roman\u00adti\u00adcism, Caspar David Friedrich for instance, or you find certain rela\u00adtions to French art and of course the Scan\u00addi\u00adna\u00advian arts, so these were the roots their art was based in.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> The exhi\u00adbi\u00adtion at the Schirn marks the first time the Group of Seven\u2019s works are being shown in Germany.<br><br><strong>Martina Weinhart:<\/strong> In Canada they are national trea\u00adsures. They are icons. Every child knows them. In school, they learn about Picasso and they learn about the Group of Seven.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> That is not the case in Europe, Wein\u00adhart says, where these painters are rela\u00adtively unknown. But presenting the collec\u00adtive to a German audi\u00adence for the first time is a tricky task. As always, context is crit\u00adical.<br><br><strong>Martina Weinhart:<\/strong> All these paint\u00adings are very atmos\u00adpheric, very beau\u00adtiful. But they are empty. There are no people, and you find these kinds of paint\u00adings also in Europe, but in Canada, this approach gets a total different meaning because this land wasn\u2019t empty. This was for years and years and thou\u00adsands of years the land of the Indige\u00adnous people.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> That is one of the blind spots of the Group of Seven, and some\u00adthing the \u201cMagnetic North\u201d exhi\u00adbi\u00adtion wres\u00adtles with. And in this podcast, \u201cCritical land\u201d, we will too.In today\u2019s episode, we\u2019re unpacking the idea of land versus land\u00adscape with Professor Carmen Robertson, a Lakota-Scot\u00adtish scholar from the Qu&#8217;appelle Valley in Saskatchewan in Canada. We\u2019ll probe the myth of untouched wilder\u00adness and talk about the process of decol\u00ado\u00adnizing art. Carmen Robertson is the Tier 1 Canada Research Chair in North Amer\u00adican Indige\u00adnous Art and Mate\u00adrial Culture at Carleton Univer\u00adsity in Ottawa, Ontario. There she leads a large research team looking at the life and work of Anishi\u00adnaabe artist <a href=\"https:\/\/www.aci-iac.ca\/art-books\/norval-morrisseau\/biography\/\">Norval Morris\u00adseau<\/a>. Morris\u00adseau was part of a collec\u00adtive of Indige\u00adnous artists in the 1970s. That collec\u00adtive was later nick\u00adnamed the \u201cIndian Group of Seven.\u201d Professor Robertson started off by telling me what drives her and her research.<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> I\u2019ve been teaching Indige\u00adnous art history since the early 2000s and you know I\u2019ve always had a passion towards ensuring that Indige\u00adnous arts are better under\u00adstood within the context of art history more gener\u00adally and Cana\u00addian culture espe\u00adcially and even posi\u00adtioned within a global under\u00adstanding so whether it\u2019s\u00a0Norval Morris\u00adseau\u00a0partic\u00adu\u00adlarly or contem\u00adpo\u00adrary Indige\u00adnous arts more gener\u00adally, my passion is to ensure that people under\u00adstand what these amazing arts are and they\u2019ve been so under\u00adap\u00adpre\u00adci\u00adated for so long that it\u2019s kind of exciting to see that there is change afoot.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> OK, so there has been change? Some move\u00adment in the past few years, would you say? Or has it even been decades?<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> I wouldn\u2019t say decades, no, defi\u00adnitely not. But there is substan\u00adtive change that we see occur\u00adring. For example the National Gallery in Canada has really made a mandate to ensure that they exhibit contem\u00adpo\u00adrary Indige\u00adnous art. \u201cAbadakone\u201d was a very impor\u00adtant exhi\u00adbi\u00adtion &#8211; global Indige\u00adnous exhi\u00adbi\u00adtion that was held in the last year there. So there is incre\u00admental change. That said there is not a real under\u00adstanding neces\u00adsarily of what is behind that art, so that\u2019s still to come.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> So we\u2019re going to get deeper into this in a little bit. But first, I wanted to take a step back. When did you first encounter the work of the Group of Seven?<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> Well prob\u00adably, I think for all Cana\u00addians, when they\u2019re born (laughing) they just auto\u00admat\u00adi\u00adcally know who the Group of Seven is. You know, in elemen\u00adtary school, it\u2019s the only art. I grew up in a very small town in Saskatchewan and we saw almost no exam\u00adples of art but somehow, I knew who the Group of Seven was. And we knew that their land\u00adscapes were iconic images of what Canada is. And yeah, so there\u2019s always been an under\u00adstanding that that was really the most impor\u00adtant art in Canada.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> Having grown up in Canada, did you connect with these land\u00adscapes? Did you recog\u00adnize the land\u00adscapes in the art that you were seeing?<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s unde\u00adni\u00adable how beau\u00adtiful their render\u00adings of land\u00adscape are. But your term \u201cland\u00adscape\u201d is an impor\u00adtant one. They weren\u2019t really painting the \u201cland\u201d as the way I connected with land partic\u00adu\u00adlarly. But that sense of an empty wilder\u00adness is really an iconic aspect of their painting, and I didn\u2019t know this in elemen\u00adtary school, but I\u2019ve come to know now that that\u2019s really a colo\u00adnial construc\u00adtion that helped Canada really go forward with their colo\u00adnial project, assuming that Canada was terra nullius or an empty land and related to you know, histor\u00adical issues like the \u201cDoctrine of Discovery\u201d that allowed Euro\u00adpean coun\u00adtries to feel free to colo\u00adnize lands in the Amer\u00adicas. So that notion of a wild rugged and empty wilder\u00adness is one of the funda\u00admental keys that has made the Group of Seven such a popular artistic \u201cmove\u00adment\u201d in Canada, I guess you could say.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> So you would say that this idea and false notion, this fallacy of untouched land\u00adscape, of untouched wilder\u00adness, that that was then exported to the rest of the world as quote, \u201cCana\u00addian art.\u201d<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> Absolutely. And of course it was heavily influ\u00adenced by what was happening in Europe. It\u2019s not a specif\u00adi\u00adcally Candian vision of the land, it\u2019s very much&#8230;\u200byou know, I think it was W.J.T. Mitchell who said way back in the \u201890s that land\u00adscape is an example of Euro\u00adpean impe\u00adri\u00adalism, an artistic example of that. And I think that that really does mani\u00adfest itself in the Group of Seven.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> So we\u2019ve already talked a little bit about the differ\u00adence between land and land\u00adscape, but can you put a finer point on the differ\u00adence of those terms to you?<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> Right and so I\u2019m going to sepa\u00adrate the way I think of those from a Lakota or an Indige\u00adnous way of knowing the land versus a euro\u00adcen\u00adtric or western way of knowing the land. So land\u00adscape, you know it really is painting a posses\u00adsion or a thing\u00adness of what land is, whereas thinking about land through partic\u00adular cultural ways of knowing, myself Lakota, but you know, Cree or Anishi\u00adnaabe \u2014 we think of Morris\u00adseau \u2014 is a rela\u00adtional connec\u00adtion to land. Land is a living kin within a larger sense of living beings, so it\u2019s not a thing, it\u2019s not a posses\u00adsion. It\u2019s another living entity that you need to take care of and that will take care of you.\u00a0<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> Some\u00adthing that strikes me looking at the Group of Seven\u2019s work is not only that it\u2019s \u201cuntouched\u201d and I say that with air quotes, is not just that it\u2019s untouched, but that there\u2019s this alone\u00adness. This kind of doing it alone, self-actu\u00adal\u00adiza\u00adtion, self-deter\u00admi\u00adna\u00adtion. Do you feel like that\u2019s all part of the narra\u00adtive as well is that going out in nature is this solo activity?\u00a0<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> Solo activity and also very much a male activity I think has a reso\u00adnance for sure. So it helps to rein\u00adforce, you know, patri\u00adar\u00adchal domi\u00adnant views of what colo\u00adnialism is about, what domi\u00adnant Canada tends to be about, so yeah, absolutely there is a rein\u00adforce\u00adment of all those kinds of signi\u00adfiers at play.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> Do you see that even then extracted to tourism, tourism liter\u00ada\u00adture, marketing of you know, \u201cDiscover Canada,\u201d or some\u00adthing like that. I know you said you weren\u2019t exposed to much art in your elemen\u00adtary school within your small commu\u00adnity but you saw the Group of Seven\u2019s art. So does that idea permeate at a lot of different levels?<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> Absolutely. Throughout popular culture in Canada, you see these ubiq\u00adui\u00adtous exam\u00adples of using the land, wilder\u00adness, you know, the rugged\u00adness of it. The oppor\u00adtu\u00adnity to still discover the untouched aspects of Canada, and that goes through not only art of course as you say, also anything that was publi\u00adcized in Canada for tourism or in the 19th century to come and home\u00adstead or to move to Canada. But also if you think of the Cana\u00addian Broad\u00adcasting Company, the CBC, from their early roots, that was a mandate, the \u201cHinter\u00adland Who\u2019s Who\u201d was this short bits that used to come on in Canada that would tell you little bits about untouched parts of Canada. The National Film Board of Canada had a similar mandate to show Canada to the world and part of showing that Canada was this really untram\u00admeled and wild country, so it is really very much a part of Candian mythology.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> Do you feel like the Group of Seven accom\u00adplished the goal that they set out to accom\u00adplish? I\u2019ve seen this term asso\u00adci\u00adated with the Group of Seven, that their style is \u201cuniquely Cana\u00addian,\u201d and again I put that in air quotes. I was wondering what that even means to be \u201cuniquely Cana\u00addian\u201d?<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> Right, well and that\u2019s such a compli\u00adcated term because, you know, we live next to the United States which has always been such an over\u00adwhelming force for Canada, coming from an impe\u00adrial rela\u00adtion\u00adship with Britain and the Common\u00adwealth. So Canada has tried very hard to carve out a sense of iden\u00adtity and they\u2019ve used the Group of Seven, and another art expres\u00adsion that has been used heavily in Canada is Inuit art as well, to promote Canada as some\u00adthing different. It\u2019s easier to do with Inuit art because that\u2019s an Indige\u00adnous art &#8211; it\u2019s not an Indige\u00adnous art form because it\u2019s sculp\u00adture or it\u2019s print\u00admaking, but it has Indige\u00adnous story\u00adtelling at its heart. Whereas Canada has claimed the land\u00adscape in partic\u00adu\u00adlarly the kinds of land\u00adscapes that the Group of Seven did for them\u00adselves as uniquely Cana\u00addian when we know in fact that it is a uniquely Euro\u00adpean tradi\u00adtion.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> Emily Carr is one of the painters who although she wasn\u2019t tech\u00adni\u00adcally a member of the Group of Seven, she is closely linked to this group. And she\u2019s differ\u00aden\u00adti\u00adated not only as one of the few women who was but also because she trav\u00adeled to various homes and Indige\u00adnous villages and depicted totem poles and such. How do you see her work?<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> Right. Well it\u2019s inter\u00adesting because for years and years I\u2019ve taught art history and so many students assume that Emily Carr is Indige\u00adnous because of the sorts of topics and images that she painted. It\u2019s always a little bit surprising to me, but I know that there is this miscon\u00adcep\u00adtion because she very beau\u00adti\u00adfully captures that imagery. However, she does so within a land\u00adscape tradi\u00adtion. She was very closely asso\u00adci\u00adated, espe\u00adcially with Lawren Harris and they wrote letters back and forth and things like that. Kristina Huneault who is an art histo\u00adrian in Canada decided to consider the way Emily Carr painted land versus a friend of Emily Carr, a Salish basket\u00admaker, Sewinchelwet, who made baskets but they also had a very close friend\u00adship. And so she compared and contrasted the ways that they talk and thought about the land through their partic\u00adular art forms and through their rela\u00adtion\u00adship. And what became very clear to her, because she was trying to struggle as a settler art histo\u00adrian herself, this notion of land versus land\u00adscape, and real\u00adized that for Emily Carr even though she had an espoused spir\u00adi\u00adtu\u00adality connected to land, she very much saw land as a thing. This thing\u00adness of land sepa\u00adrates the Salish under\u00adstanding of land as kin or rela\u00adtion in a very inter\u00adcon\u00adnected way which we see I think in the way you posi\u00adtion your\u00adself in a land\u00adscape as a painter, you\u2019re not part of that and it changes that rela\u00adtion\u00adship. And it comes back down to epis\u00adte\u00admolo\u00adgies or ways of knowing that land, two different ways of knowing that land. And I think that\u2019s a key to shifting the way people under\u00adstand land versus land\u00adscape within the gallery setting.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> That\u2019s so inter\u00adesting to me that some of your students assume Emily Carr is an Indige\u00adnous artist and then you start to ask more ques\u00adtions about who she was and the time she was painting in. What are some of those ques\u00adtions that come out in that discus\u00adsion?<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> Well, for example, a lot of the paint\u00adings that she is creating are sort of vestiges of former villages on British Columbia\u2019s west coast and that notion of not having actual partic\u00adi\u00adpants in those paint\u00adings, not painting living villages but sort of a roman\u00adti\u00adcized image of a past or the vestiges of a past really feed into a discourse about the quote unquote, \u201clast of a dying breed.\u201d A romantic image of a frozen-in-time space in which Indige\u00adnous peoples were very much at that time situ\u00adated within, so real\u00adizing that that kind of a discourse, and a visual discourse is part of the baggage you bring to looking at that work requires you to peel back some of those layers.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> Maybe now is a good time before we get into Norval Morris\u00adseau because there are so many ques\u00adtions that I have there. But first to talk about the different terms &#8211; about Native, Indian, Aborig\u00adinal, First Nations, Indige\u00adnous. If you could give a little guid\u00adance on the use of such terms.<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> Well those terms are very politi\u00adcized, they are external terms that have been imposed on Indige\u00adnous peoples. The idea of \u201cone Indige\u00adnous perspec\u00adtive,\u201d of all Indige\u00adnous peoples being a homo\u00adge\u00adneous group is pretty ridicu\u00adlous. So the idea of First Nations, of Aborig\u00adinal, of Indige\u00adnous. Those are terms that are useful but they don\u2019t partic\u00adu\u00adlarly speak to any indi\u00advidual. So there\u2019s a real push right now as part of this decol\u00ado\u00adnizing effort to gain sover\u00adeignty, sover\u00adeignty over your own nation, iden\u00adtity, being. So if, for example, I referred to Morris\u00adseau as Anishi\u00adnaabe. At one time he was referred to as quote unquote \u201cIndian,\u201d another time he was referred to as \u201cFirst Nation,\u201d then he was referred to as \u201cAborig\u00adinal,\u201d then Indige\u00adnous. People still call him Indige\u00adnous, also Ojibwe which is an anthro\u00adpo\u00adlog\u00adical term. But Anishi\u00adnaabe, the Anishin\u00adabek Nation is really, he is a member of that Nation. And so using terms that are from a partic\u00adular Nation have become far more used now in Canada and I think that\u2019s a really good way to begin under\u00adstanding the 500 Nations that were here when this country was begun to be settled.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> So a perfect tran\u00adsi\u00adtion to Norval Morris\u00adseau, an Anishi\u00adnaabe painter. Can you explain who he was?<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> He is the first Indige\u00adnous artist in Canada who received an art exhi\u00adbi\u00adtion in a main\u00adstream contem\u00adpo\u00adrary art gallery in Toronto, Ontario in Canada in 1962. Until that time, no Indige\u00adnous artist in Canada had received an exhi\u00adbi\u00adtion of that sort. Art was shown within museums. It tended to be known as \u201carti\u00adfact.\u201d So he was a real trail\u00adblazer in that way. He\u2019s consid\u00adered today to be the \u201cMishomis\u201d or the \u201cgrand\u00adfa\u00adther\u201d of contem\u00adpo\u00adrary Indige\u00adnous art. He\u2019s also the first Indige\u00adnous artist in Canada who has received a retro\u00adspec\u00adtive exhi\u00adbi\u00adtion at the National Gallery of Canada. And that happened in 2006 at a time when the National Gallery really had only purchased one of his paint\u00adings in their history. His work was being collected at many art museums in Canada, but mostly at ethno\u00adgraphic museums, which is in itself very conflicted. So I think I would have to say the most impor\u00adtant thing Morris\u00adseau did was create a unique visual language and it\u2019s a form of visual story\u00adtelling that you can under\u00adstand when viewing his art, but it does not have any antecedents in Euro\u00adpean or western art tradi\u00adtion and to me that is funda\u00admental to his genius and his creativity.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> OK so for all of our podcast listeners, if you can attempt to do this very strange thing of build an image for us of what his art looks like. And of course people can go online, we\u2019ll have a link in our show notes and all of that. But can you give us a bit of a visual?<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> Well one of the things that he did was he drew from some Anishi\u00adnaabe ways of creating art that had been used for millennia. So he looked at rock art, vision quest sites. He looked at birch\u00adbark scrolls, sacred scrolls, and he saw the way that they were using visual imagery. So he was influ\u00adenced by that. But this thick black line that outlines all aspects of his figures, whether they be animal or trees or human, he always outlines all of his figures in a very thick black line and those lines then connect to every other living being within the painting to create this sense of rela\u00adtional connec\u00adtion or kinship, and it\u2019s really diffi\u00adcult, he uses bright, bright colors often and inte\u00adrior segmen\u00adta\u00adtions. He uses really inter\u00adesting ways to connect the beings in his work and often those come from tradi\u00adtional stories, so some\u00adtimes he was referred to as a \u201clegend painter\u201d in sort of a discred\u00aditing way but actu\u00adally he was also painting really contem\u00adpo\u00adrary topics but those were kind of discred\u00adited in favor of you know, a painting of a moose for example.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> So why is it discred\u00aditing, when you say he was called a \u201clegend painter\u201d in a discred\u00aditing way. Why was that?<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> Well again, that\u2019s a compli\u00adcated idea that goes back to prim\u00adi\u00adtivism and situ\u00adating Indige\u00adnous art in certain boxes. If you think of the 1985 show, \u201cPrim\u00adi\u00adtivism,\u201d and how modern artists like Picasso or Klee were inspired by non-western art or art exam\u00adples, like African masks. This is the same where Morris\u00adseau\u2019s art was being confined within a discourse. So \u201clegend\u201d was used to discredit the way of thinking about a world\u00adview or an inter\u00adcon\u00adnected way, where story is very much a kind of theo\u00adret\u00adical way to orga\u00adnize your ways of knowing.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> So as you mentioned in 1962 when he became the first Indige\u00adnous artist to have his work shown in a contem\u00adpo\u00adrary art gallery in Canada, of course his name recog\u00adni\u00adtion, popu\u00adlarity skyrock\u00adeted. Was that a double edged sword for him, posi\u00adtives and nega\u00adtives there?<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> Absolutely. So first of all, you\u2019ve got to remember that he grew up a time, he was born in 1932. He grew up at a time where he had to go to Indian Resi\u00adden\u00adtial School in Canada where he was sexu\u00adally abused and where he was phys\u00adi\u00adcally abused. And that took its toll on him. Luckily he went back to his grand\u00adpar\u00adents home commu\u00adnity and lived with his grand\u00admother and grand\u00adfa\u00adther. His grand\u00adfa\u00adther was a shaman within the spir\u00adi\u00adtual Midewiwin lodge that is part of Anishi\u00adnaabe cultural, spir\u00adi\u00adtual pursuits and so he was kind of an appren\u00adtice to his grand\u00adfa\u00adther and trav\u00adeled with him on the lakes and rivers. Learned stories of the lands and connec\u00adtions and met with old people and had a real priv\u00adi\u00adleged life in that way. So there was this real sort of polar\u00adized way of thinking about educa\u00adtion. So in a western sense, his educa\u00adtion system was very low and was very much violent, yet he had these real oppor\u00adtu\u00adni\u00adties to learn knowl\u00adedge and his language where many other Indige\u00adnous people didn\u2019t have that oppor\u00adtu\u00adnity. So that\u2019s conflicted in itself. And he was never a trained artist in the sense that he went to a western school. He created his own really artic\u00adu\u00adlated language, his own aesthetic. And many many Indige\u00adnous artists, espe\u00adcially Anishi\u00adnaabe and Cree artists from north\u00adwestern Ontario followed that tradi\u00adtion and expanded that aesthetic.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> So when he got that name recog\u00adni\u00adtion, his popu\u00adlarity started to grow. All of that. Was his life opened up to basi\u00adcally all the scrutiny in the world?<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> Well yeah, and also it was a little over\u00adwhelming to him. He did have trou\u00adbles with drugs and alcohol because of that, not surpris\u00adingly. He\u2019s a two spir\u00adited person and that was a diffi\u00adcult road within Canada in the 1960s and 1970s so that took a while to figure out who he was. And being pulled in direc\u00adtions and put into boxes by art dealers, by the media, that also was very diffi\u00adcult but in the end he has this amazing body of work that some of the greatest master works in Cana\u00addian art history I think are because of Morris\u00adseau.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> And Morris\u00adseau was also part of the Profes\u00adsional Native Indian Artists Incor\u00adpo\u00adra\u00adtion (PNIAI), which was later nick\u00adnamed the Indian Group of Seven. Can you talk about what this group of artists did, give a little history.<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> Absolutely. Well Daphne Odjig, who\u2019s Odawa, is this amazing&#8230;\u200bshe would be the grand\u00admother of contem\u00adpo\u00adrary Indige\u00adnous art and knew Morris\u00adseau and was influ\u00adenced by Morris\u00adseau. She owned a gallery in the 1970s in Winnipeg, Mani\u00adtoba, and she brought together these artists including Morris\u00adseau into the PNIAI to try to find a way to make it easier for young Indige\u00adnous artists in Canada to not have the diffi\u00adcul\u00adties that this sort of foun\u00adda\u00adtional group dealt with. To open galleries for exhi\u00adbi\u00adtions. To open doors to artists to easily become artists and not deal with a lot of the frus\u00adtra\u00adtions that she and Morris\u00adseau, Alex Janvier is another key member of that group. Uh even\u00adtu\u00adally the group kind of didn\u2019t really disband, but they moved into other realms and Morris\u00adseau was not part of that after about 1975.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> What are some of those frus\u00adtra\u00adtions that you mention the artists felt?<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> Well I did mention that their work was being collected not in art museums but through ethno\u00adgraphic collec\u00adtions so that was key. Also to receive an exhi\u00adbi\u00adtion at a main\u00adstream, contem\u00adpo\u00adrary gallery was not easy. So some commer\u00adcial galleries defi\u00adnitely were open to showing that work, but they really wanted to control the way that art was being shown or the subject matter of that art that was on display. And if you just think of the amounts of money that artists were being paid for their work, Indige\u00adnous art was very under\u00advalued in compar\u00adison to their main\u00adstream coun\u00adter\u00adparts in Canada at that time.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> Bringing it to now. My last ques\u00adtion, who are some of the artists that you look to today? Who are some people we should be following?<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> OK well in addi\u00adtion to being the lead inves\u00adti\u00adgator on this study of Morris\u00adseau, I\u2019m also passion\u00adately excited about contem\u00adpo\u00adrary beading expres\u00adsions that are coming out of the Cana\u00addian prairies. And so\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.ruthcuthand.ca\/\">Ruth Cuthand<\/a>\u00a0for example whose beaded diseases, a series called \u201cTrading Series,\u201d is an artist who I think is really leading Canada in an exciting way. And beading across Canada is really an impor\u00adtant medium that has taken on such reso\u00adnance.\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.nadiamyre.net\/\">Nadia Myre<\/a>, for example, out of Montreal, an Anishi\u00adnaabe is well known inter\u00adna\u00adtion\u00adally. And of course perfor\u00admance art, what\u2019s happening in perfor\u00admance art with\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rebeccabelmore.com\/\">Rebecca Belmore<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.kentmonkman.com\/\">Kent Monkman<\/a>\u00a0are two inter\u00adna\u00adtion\u00adally known exam\u00adples. To me, one thing that used to happen in my class\u00adrooms 10 years ago is I would intro\u00adduce contem\u00adpo\u00adrary Indige\u00adnous artists and students wouldn\u2019t know their names but today when I intro\u00adduce contem\u00adpo\u00adrary Indige\u00adnous artists, they\u2019re ready to move to thinking about their work in really exciting ways because they do know these artists and they\u2019re following these artists because there\u2019s much more avail\u00adability of their work and acces\u00adsi\u00adbility to their exhi\u00adbi\u00adtions. So that\u2019s good news.<br><br><strong>Sylvia Cunningham:<\/strong> Carmen Robertson, professor at Carleton Univer\u00adsity in Ontario. Thank you so much for your time today.<br><br><strong>Carmen Robertson:<\/strong> Oh, thank you, Sylvia.<div class=\"col-sm-8 \" data-el-commentable=\"1\" id=\"C63190\" style=\"margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; position: relative; min-height: 1px; float: left; width: 690px;\"><div class=\"content-footer\" style=\"margin: 0px 0px 2rem; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;\"><div class=\"rich-text-format\" data-commentable=\"1\" style=\"margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-alternates: inherit; font-variant-position: inherit; font-variant-emoji: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: 16px; line-height: inherit; font-family: Merriweather, Georgia, Times, &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif; font-optical-sizing: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-kerning: inherit; font-feature-settings: inherit; 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  \">\n\t<div class=\"height-container-contents lazy-media-contents\">\n\t\n\t<div class=\"lazy-media-preview\" style=\"background-image: url('data:image\/jpeg;base64,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'); background-position: 50% 50%; height: 100%; width: 100%;\"><\/div>\n\n\t\t<lazy-media-inline inline-template>\n\t\t<div>\n\t\t\t<lazy-media :inline=\"true\" :alt=\"alt\" :sizes=\"sizes\" :scale=\"scale\" :zoom=\"zoom\" :brightness=\"brightness\" :path=\"path\" :video=\"video\" :autoplay=\"autoplay\" :youtube=\"youtube\" :crop=\"crop\" :youtubelabel=\"youtubelabel\" :annotations=\"annotations\" :background=\"background\" v-if=\"sizes\"><\/lazy-media>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/lazy-media-inline>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<\/figure>\n\n\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n<div  class='col col-xs-8 related-sticky-teaser-content'>\n\n<div  class='padding-bottom-2'>\t<p class='ho-sd-category-small'>\u00c4hnlicher Artikel<\/p>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-ho-div\"><h3 class=\"ho-sd-teaser-headline-small\">Critical land. Indigenous art and identity<\/h3><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/section>\n\n<section class='wp-block-ho-pattern show-optional-headline toggle-optional-button' data-pattern='ho\/text-magazin-exkurs-option-button'>\n\n<div  class='margin-bottom-7'>\n\n<div  class='container-fluid cf-gutter-5 cf-side-5'>\n\n<div  class='row center-xs'>\n\n<div  class='col col-xs-12 col-md-7'>\n\n<div  class='mag-exkurs container-fluid padding-top-5 padding-bottom-5 cf-side-7 cf-gutter-1'>\n\n<div  class='padding-bottom-4 ho-pattern-optional-headline'>\n<h2 class='ho-sd-mag-h5' style=\"white-space: normal;\">Critical land<\/h2>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-ho-div\">\t<p class='ho-sd-body-medium'>In the podcast series \u201cCritical land\u201d along\u00adside the current exhi\u00adbi\u00adtion \u201cMagnetic north\u201d, Sylvia Cunningham talks with SCHIRN curator Martina Wein\u00adhart, art histo\u00adrian Prof. Carmen Robertson, artist <a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/schirnmag\/critical-land-indigene-kunst-und-identitaet-2\/\" data-type=\"magazin-artikel\" data-id=\"16063\">Caro\u00adline Monnet<\/a>, and scholar, philoso\u00adpher, and entre\u00adpre\u00adneur <a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/schirnmag\/critical-land-perspektiven-zum-klimawandel-2\/\" data-type=\"magazin-artikel\" data-id=\"16059\">Jocelyn Joe-Strack<\/a> about Cana\u00addian modernist painting, contem\u00adpo\u00adrary art in times of decol\u00ado\u00adniza\u00adtion, and Cree writer <a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/schirnmag\/critical-land-sprache-schafft-veraenderung-2\/\" data-type=\"magazin-artikel\" data-id=\"16049\">Jessica Johns<\/a> the rela\u00adtion\u00adship of land vs. land\u00adscape, and climate change from Indige\u00adnous perspec\u00adtives. In English.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n<div  class='ho-pattern-optional-button padding-top-4'>\n\n<div  class='wp-block-ho-buttons wp-block-ho-buttons flex-layout-align-center mobile-flex-layout-align-center'>\n<div class=\"wp-block-ho-buttons-item\">\n\t<a href=\"\"  target=\"\" role=\"button\" aria-pressed=\"false\" rel=\"nofollow\" class=\"ho-button is-primary\">\n\t\t\t\t<span class=\"ho-button-label \">Lorem Ipsum<\/span>\n\t<\/a>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<div class=\"structure-content-color\" style=\"--content-color-foreground: var(--color-fg-text-black);--content-color-background: var(--color-highlight-highlight-02);color: var(--color-fg-text-black);background: var(--color-highlight-highlight-02);\">\n<div class='structure-content-color-content'><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/section>\n\n<section class='wp-block-ho-pattern show-optional-headline' data-pattern='ho\/text-linkliste-horizontal'>\n\n<div  class='margin-bottom-7'>\n\n<div  class='container-fluid cf-gutter-5 cf-side-5'>\n\n<div  class='row'>\n\n<div  class='col col-xs-12'>\n\n<div  class='padding-bottom-3'>\n<h2 class='ho-sd-body' style=\"white-space: normal;\">Subscribe to SCHIRN podcasts on:<\/h2>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n<div  class='wp-block-ho-buttons flex-layout-align-left mobile-flex-layout-align-full-width'>\n<div class=\"wp-block-ho-buttons-item\">\n\t<a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/4I7y18c747MEoXDywHloUV\"  target=\"_blank\" role=\"button\" aria-pressed=\"false\" rel=\"nofollow\" class=\"ho-button is-primary\">\n\t\t\t\t<span class=\"ho-button-label \">Spotify<\/span>\n\t<\/a>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-ho-buttons-item\">\n\t<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/de\/podcast\/schirn-podcast\/id1184909514\"  target=\"_blank\" role=\"button\" aria-pressed=\"false\" rel=\"nofollow\" class=\"ho-button is-primary\">\n\t\t\t\t<span class=\"ho-button-label \">Apple Podcast<\/span>\n\t<\/a>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-ho-buttons-item\">\n\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.deezer.com\/de\/show\/532312\"  target=\"_blank\" role=\"button\" aria-pressed=\"false\" rel=\"nofollow\" class=\"ho-button is-primary\">\n\t\t\t\t<span class=\"ho-button-label \">Deezer<\/span>\n\t<\/a>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-ho-buttons-item\">\n\t<a href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/schirn-kunsthalle\/sets\/schirn-podcast\"  target=\"_blank\" role=\"button\" aria-pressed=\"false\" rel=\"nofollow\" class=\"ho-button is-primary\">\n\t\t\t\t<span class=\"ho-button-label \">Soundcloud<\/span>\n\t<\/a>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-ho-buttons-item\">\n\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.de\/music\/player\/podcasts\/e1c46f18-d352-468d-9715-4b8db6b5da9f\/schirn-podcast\"  target=\"_blank\" role=\"button\" aria-pressed=\"false\" rel=\"nofollow\" class=\"ho-button is-primary\">\n\t\t\t\t<span class=\"ho-button-label \">Amazon Music<\/span>\n\t<\/a>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/section>\n\n<section class='wp-block-ho-pattern ' data-pattern='ho\/medien-bild-volle-breite'>\n\n<div  class='margin-bottom-7'>\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-ho-div\">\n\n<div  class='row'>\n\n<div  class='col col-xs-12'>\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-ho-div\"><figure itemscope itemtype=\"http:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" class=\"lazy-media-inline \" role=\"group\" aria-describedby=\"media_3gzU3J\">\n<script type=\"application\/json\">{\n\"id\" : 16015,\n\"sizes\" : 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url('data:image\/jpeg;base64,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'); background-position: 50% 50%; height: 100%; width: 100%;\"><\/div>\n\n\t\n<div class=\"lazy-media loaded\">\n\t<img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/CriticalLand1_Final.jpg\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/CriticalLand1_Final.jpg 1920w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/CriticalLand1_Final-300x138.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/CriticalLand1_Final-1024x471.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/CriticalLand1_Final-768x354.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/CriticalLand1_Final-1536x707.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/CriticalLand1_Final-440x203.jpg 440w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/CriticalLand1_Final-580x267.jpg 580w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/CriticalLand1_Final-720x332.jpg 720w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/CriticalLand1_Final-1280x589.jpg 1280w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 763px) 100vw, (qmin-width: 764px) and (max-width: 1023px) 100vw, (min-width: 1024px) 100vw\" alt=\"\" loading=\"lazy\" \/>\n<\/div>\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<\/figure>\n\n\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n<div  class='container-fluid cf-gutter-5 cf-side-5'>\n\n<div  class='row'>\n\n<div  class='col col-xs-12'>\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-ho-div\"><figcaption id=\"media_3gzU3J\">\n\t<div class=\"figcaption-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"lazy-media-image-label\">Carmen Robertson<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"lazy-media-image-description\">\u00a9 Oriana Fenwick<\/div>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/figcaption>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/section>\n\n<section class='wp-block-ho-pattern toggle-optional-headline show-optional-headline toggle-optional-copy' data-pattern='ho\/autoteaser-magazin-grid-4er-option-headline-text'>\n\n<div  class='ho-pattern-optional-headline'>\n\n<div  class='container-fluid'>\n\n<div  class='row'>\n\n<div  class='col col-xs-12 col-md-5'>\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-ho-div\">\n\n<div  class='margin-bottom-4'>\n<h3 class='ho-sd-h3' style=\"white-space: normal;\">You may also like<\/h3>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n<div  class='col col-xs-12 col-md-6 col-md-offset-1 ho-pattern-optional-text'>\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-ho-div\">\n\n<div  class='margin-bottom-4'>\t<p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr, sed diam nonumy eirmod tempor invidunt.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"wp-block-ho-slot \">\n<section class='wp-block-ho-pattern toggle-optional-headline' data-pattern='ho\/teaser-mag-grid-4er-optional-headline'><div  class='ho-pattern-optional-headline'><div  class='container-fluid'><div  class='row'><div  class='col col-xs-12'><div  class='margin-bottom-3'><h3 class='ho-sd-mag-h3' style=\"white-space: normal;\">Lorem ipsum dolor sit<\/h3><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><div  class='margin-bottom-5'><div class=\"wp-block-ho-lane-wrapper\" data-orientation=\"horizontal\" data-lane-item-count=\"8\"><div class=\"container-fluid \"><ul class=\"wp-block wp-block-ho-grid row\"><li class=\"wp-block-ho-lane-item col margin-bottom-5 col-md-3 col-xs-6\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/schirnmag\/future-of-yesterday-a-glimpse-into-todays-sxe-and-hardcore-culture\/\" class=\"wp-block-ho-teaser teaser teaser-magazin-artikel \"><div  class='magazine-teaser'><div class=\"wp-block-ho-post-image \"><figure itemscope itemtype=\"http:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" class=\"lazy-media-inline \" role=\"group\" aria-describedby=\"media_69de31ab450a6\"><script type=\"application\/json\">{\n\"id\" : 45396,\n\"sizes\" : 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https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Schirn_Presse_Wagner_DeBurca_Filmstill_Future_of_Yesterday_3-2048x1152.jpg 2048w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Schirn_Presse_Wagner_DeBurca_Filmstill_Future_of_Yesterday_3-440x248.jpg 440w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Schirn_Presse_Wagner_DeBurca_Filmstill_Future_of_Yesterday_3-580x326.jpg 580w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Schirn_Presse_Wagner_DeBurca_Filmstill_Future_of_Yesterday_3-720x405.jpg 720w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Schirn_Presse_Wagner_DeBurca_Filmstill_Future_of_Yesterday_3-1280x720.jpg 1280w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 763px) 50vw, (min-width: 764px) and (max-width: 1023px) 25vw, (min-width: 1024px) 25vw\" alt=\"A young person presents a cassette titled &quot;The Future of Yesterday&quot; in a creative design.\" loading=\"lazy\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/figure><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-ho-slot \"><\/div><\/div><div  class='padding-top-3'><div  class='margin-bottom-2 ho-tag-group'><div class=\"is-primary is-small\"><span class=\"ho-tag is-primary is-small\"><span class=\"ho-tag-label\">Context<\/span><\/span><\/div><\/div><h3 class=\"ho-sd-mag-h5 hyphen\">Future of Yesterday. A Glimpse into Today\u2019s sXe and Hardcore Culture<\/h3><\/div><\/a><\/li><li class=\"wp-block-ho-lane-item col margin-bottom-5 col-md-3 col-xs-6\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/schirnmag\/the-film-to-the-exhibition-thomas-bayrle\/\" class=\"wp-block-ho-teaser teaser teaser-magazin-artikel \"><div  class='magazine-teaser'><div class=\"wp-block-ho-post-image \"><figure itemscope itemtype=\"http:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" class=\"lazy-media-inline \" role=\"group\" aria-describedby=\"media_69de31ab47a85\"><script type=\"application\/json\">{\n\"id\" : 48216,\n\"sizes\" : 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https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Ausstellungsansicht_c_Norbert_Miguletz_1-2048x1536.jpg 2048w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Ausstellungsansicht_c_Norbert_Miguletz_1-440x330.jpg 440w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Ausstellungsansicht_c_Norbert_Miguletz_1-580x435.jpg 580w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Ausstellungsansicht_c_Norbert_Miguletz_1-720x540.jpg 720w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Ausstellungsansicht_c_Norbert_Miguletz_1-1280x960.jpg 1280w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 763px) 50vw, (min-width: 764px) and (max-width: 1023px) 25vw, (min-width: 1024px) 25vw\" alt=\"Modern art gallery featuring displayed tapestries and paintings in creative patterns and vibrant colors.\" loading=\"lazy\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/figure><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-ho-slot \"><slot-teaser-autoplay inline-template><div class=\"slot-teaser-autoplay\"><video autoplay muted playsinline loop data-src=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/Baylre-Teaser_komprimiert.mp4\"><\/video><\/div><\/slot-teaser-autoplay><\/div><\/div><div  class='padding-top-3'><div  class='margin-bottom-2 ho-tag-group'><div class=\"is-primary is-small\"><span class=\"ho-tag is-primary is-small\"><span class=\"ho-tag-label\">Context<\/span><\/span><\/div><\/div><h3 class=\"ho-sd-mag-h5 hyphen\">The film to the exhibition: Thomas Bayrle<\/h3><\/div><\/a><\/li><li class=\"wp-block-ho-lane-item col margin-bottom-5 col-md-3 col-xs-6\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/schirnmag\/strike-a-pose-on-the-performativity-of-musical-cultures\/\" class=\"wp-block-ho-teaser teaser teaser-magazin-artikel \"><div  class='magazine-teaser'><div class=\"wp-block-ho-post-image \"><figure itemscope itemtype=\"http:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" class=\"lazy-media-inline \" role=\"group\" aria-describedby=\"media_69de31ab4a532\"><script type=\"application\/json\">{\n\"id\" : 48951,\n\"sizes\" : 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background-position: 50% 50%; height: 100%; width: 100%;\"><\/div><div class=\"lazy-media loaded\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/EVC_Still_10_web-1920x1038.jpg\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/EVC_Still_10_web-1920x1038.jpg 1920w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/EVC_Still_10_web-300x162.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/EVC_Still_10_web-1024x554.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/EVC_Still_10_web-768x415.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/EVC_Still_10_web-1536x830.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/EVC_Still_10_web-2048x1107.jpg 2048w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/EVC_Still_10_web-440x238.jpg 440w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/EVC_Still_10_web-580x314.jpg 580w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/EVC_Still_10_web-720x389.jpg 720w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/EVC_Still_10_web-1280x692.jpg 1280w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 763px) 50vw, (min-width: 764px) and (max-width: 1023px) 25vw, (min-width: 1024px) 25vw\" alt=\"Two people face each other, locked in an intense gaze, against a colorful, blurred background lighting.\" loading=\"lazy\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/figure><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-ho-slot \"><\/div><\/div><div  class='padding-top-3'><div  class='margin-bottom-2 ho-tag-group'><div class=\"is-primary is-small\"><span class=\"ho-tag is-primary is-small\"><span class=\"ho-tag-label\">Context<\/span><\/span><\/div><\/div><h3 class=\"ho-sd-mag-h5 hyphen\">Strike a Pose! On the performativity of musical cultures<\/h3><\/div><\/a><\/li><li class=\"wp-block-ho-lane-item col margin-bottom-5 col-md-3 col-xs-6\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/schirnmag\/the-film-to-the-exhibition-barbara-wagner-benjamin-de-burca\/\" class=\"wp-block-ho-teaser teaser teaser-magazin-artikel \"><div  class='magazine-teaser'><div class=\"wp-block-ho-post-image \"><figure itemscope itemtype=\"http:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" class=\"lazy-media-inline \" role=\"group\" aria-describedby=\"media_69de31ab4d239\"><script type=\"application\/json\">{\n\"id\" : 48756,\n\"sizes\" : {\"medium\":{\"file\":\"26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-203x300.jpg\",\"width\":203,\"height\":300,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":17963},\"large\":{\"file\":\"26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-692x1024.jpg\",\"width\":692,\"height\":1024,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":155325},\"medium_large\":{\"file\":\"26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-768x1136.jpg\",\"width\":768,\"height\":1136,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":189072},\"1536x1536\":{\"file\":\"26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-1039x1536.jpg\",\"width\":1039,\"height\":1536,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":341336},\"2048x2048\":{\"file\":\"26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-1385x2048.jpg\",\"width\":1385,\"height\":2048,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":587214},\"small\":{\"file\":\"26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-298x440.jpg\",\"width\":298,\"height\":440,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":33552},\"semi\":{\"file\":\"26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-392x580.jpg\",\"width\":392,\"height\":580,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":54117},\"mobile\":{\"file\":\"26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-487x720.jpg\",\"width\":487,\"height\":720,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":79614},\"hd\":{\"file\":\"26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-866x1280.jpg\",\"width\":866,\"height\":1280,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":240733},\"full\":{\"file\":\"26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-1298x1920.jpg\",\"width\":1298,\"height\":1920,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":521239},\"original\":{\"file\":\"26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1.jpg\",\"width\":2220,\"height\":3283}},\n\"alt\" : \"Two people stand in a room wearing fashionable, casual clothing. The background is minimalist and bright.\",\n\"path\" : \"\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2026\\\/02\\\/\",\n\"video\" : null,\n\"autoplay\" : null,\n\"youtube\" : null,\n\"youtubelabel\" : \"play\",\n\"brightness\" : 100,\n\"crop\" : null,\n\"background\" : false,\n\"scale\" : 1,\n\"zoom\" : false,\n\"annotations\" : null}<\/script><div class=\"height-container \" style=\"padding-bottom:147.88288288288%;   \"><div class=\"height-container-contents lazy-media-contents\"><div class=\"lazy-media-preview\" style=\"background-image: url('data:image\/jpeg;base64,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'); background-position: 50% 50%; height: 100%; width: 100%;\"><\/div><div class=\"lazy-media loaded\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-1298x1920.jpg\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-1298x1920.jpg 1298w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-203x300.jpg 203w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-692x1024.jpg 692w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-768x1136.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-1039x1536.jpg 1039w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-1385x2048.jpg 1385w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-298x440.jpg 298w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-392x580.jpg 392w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-487x720.jpg 487w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/26_002_FINNWALDHERR_R1-08086-004A-1-866x1280.jpg 866w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 763px) 50vw, (min-width: 764px) and (max-width: 1023px) 25vw, (min-width: 1024px) 25vw\" alt=\"Two people stand in a room wearing fashionable, casual clothing. The background is minimalist and bright.\" loading=\"lazy\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/figure><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-ho-slot \"><slot-teaser-autoplay inline-template><div class=\"slot-teaser-autoplay\"><video autoplay muted playsinline loop data-src=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/TZeaser-WdB-cut_klein.mp4\"><\/video><\/div><\/slot-teaser-autoplay><\/div><\/div><div  class='padding-top-3'><div  class='margin-bottom-2 ho-tag-group'><div class=\"is-primary is-small\"><span class=\"ho-tag is-primary is-small\"><span class=\"ho-tag-label\">Context<\/span><\/span><\/div><\/div><h3 class=\"ho-sd-mag-h5 hyphen\">The film to the exhibition: B\u00e1rbara Wagner &amp; Benjamin de Burca<\/h3><\/div><\/a><\/li><li class=\"wp-block-ho-lane-item col margin-bottom-5 col-md-3 col-xs-6\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/schirnmag\/bald-in-der-schirn-thomas-bayrle-froehlich-sein\/\" class=\"wp-block-ho-teaser teaser teaser-magazin-artikel \"><div  class='magazine-teaser'><div class=\"wp-block-ho-post-image \"><figure itemscope itemtype=\"http:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" class=\"lazy-media-inline \" role=\"group\" aria-describedby=\"media_69de31ab507e3\"><script type=\"application\/json\">{\n\"id\" : 33835,\n\"sizes\" : {\"medium\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-300x300.jpg\",\"width\":300,\"height\":300,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":46246},\"large\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-1024x1021.jpg\",\"width\":1024,\"height\":1021,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":440920},\"medium_large\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-768x766.jpg\",\"width\":768,\"height\":766,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":260174},\"1536x1536\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-1536x1532.jpg\",\"width\":1536,\"height\":1532,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":905770},\"2048x2048\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-2048x2042.jpg\",\"width\":2048,\"height\":2042,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":1463706},\"small\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-440x440.jpg\",\"width\":440,\"height\":440,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":93103},\"semi\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-580x578.jpg\",\"width\":580,\"height\":578,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":156813},\"mobile\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-720x718.jpg\",\"width\":720,\"height\":718,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":230983},\"hd\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-1280x1276.jpg\",\"width\":1280,\"height\":1276,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":657747},\"full\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-1920x1914.jpg\",\"width\":1920,\"height\":1914,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":1320160},\"original\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019.jpg\",\"width\":3125,\"height\":3116}},\n\"alt\" : \"\",\n\"path\" : \"\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2025\\\/02\\\/\",\n\"video\" : null,\n\"autoplay\" : null,\n\"youtube\" : null,\n\"youtubelabel\" : \"play\",\n\"brightness\" : 100,\n\"crop\" : null,\n\"background\" : false,\n\"scale\" : 1,\n\"zoom\" : false,\n\"annotations\" : null}<\/script><div class=\"height-container \" style=\"padding-bottom:99.712%;   \"><div class=\"height-container-contents lazy-media-contents\"><div class=\"lazy-media-preview\" style=\"background-image: url('data:image\/jpeg;base64,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'); background-position: 50% 50%; height: 100%; width: 100%;\"><\/div><div class=\"lazy-media loaded\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-1920x1914.jpg\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-1920x1914.jpg 1920w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-300x300.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-1024x1021.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-150x150.jpg 150w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-768x766.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-1536x1532.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-2048x2042.jpg 2048w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-440x440.jpg 440w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-580x578.jpg 580w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-720x718.jpg 720w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/Schirn_Presse_Bayrle_Roll_over_Smartfon_I_2019-1280x1276.jpg 1280w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 763px) 50vw, (min-width: 764px) and (max-width: 1023px) 25vw, (min-width: 1024px) 25vw\" alt=\"\" loading=\"lazy\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/figure><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-ho-slot \"><\/div><\/div><div  class='padding-top-3'><div  class='margin-bottom-2 ho-tag-group'><div class=\"is-primary is-small\"><span class=\"ho-tag is-primary is-small\"><span class=\"ho-tag-label\">Context<\/span><\/span><\/div><\/div><h3 class=\"ho-sd-mag-h5 hyphen\">Now at the SCHIRN: Thomas Bayrle. Be Happy!<\/h3><\/div><\/a><\/li><li class=\"wp-block-ho-lane-item col margin-bottom-5 col-md-3 col-xs-6\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/schirnmag\/bald-in-der-schirn-barbara-wagner-benjamin-de-burca-the-tunnels-we-dig\/\" class=\"wp-block-ho-teaser teaser teaser-magazin-artikel \"><div  class='magazine-teaser'><div class=\"wp-block-ho-post-image \"><figure itemscope itemtype=\"http:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" class=\"lazy-media-inline \" role=\"group\" aria-describedby=\"media_69de31ab57811\"><script type=\"application\/json\">{\n\"id\" : 45394,\n\"sizes\" : {\"medium\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Wagner_DeBurca_Filmstill_Future_of_Yesterday-300x169.jpg\",\"width\":300,\"height\":169,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":12250},\"large\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Wagner_DeBurca_Filmstill_Future_of_Yesterday-1024x576.jpg\",\"width\":1024,\"height\":576,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":87262},\"medium_large\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Wagner_DeBurca_Filmstill_Future_of_Yesterday-768x432.jpg\",\"width\":768,\"height\":432,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":54292},\"1536x1536\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Wagner_DeBurca_Filmstill_Future_of_Yesterday-1536x864.jpg\",\"width\":1536,\"height\":864,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":176587},\"2048x2048\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Wagner_DeBurca_Filmstill_Future_of_Yesterday-2048x1152.jpg\",\"width\":2048,\"height\":1152,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":296526},\"small\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Wagner_DeBurca_Filmstill_Future_of_Yesterday-440x248.jpg\",\"width\":440,\"height\":248,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":22251},\"semi\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Wagner_DeBurca_Filmstill_Future_of_Yesterday-580x326.jpg\",\"width\":580,\"height\":326,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":34952},\"mobile\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Wagner_DeBurca_Filmstill_Future_of_Yesterday-720x405.jpg\",\"width\":720,\"height\":405,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":49251},\"hd\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Wagner_DeBurca_Filmstill_Future_of_Yesterday-1280x720.jpg\",\"width\":1280,\"height\":720,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":127731},\"full\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Wagner_DeBurca_Filmstill_Future_of_Yesterday-1920x1080.jpg\",\"width\":1920,\"height\":1080,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":264214},\"original\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Wagner_DeBurca_Filmstill_Future_of_Yesterday.jpg\",\"width\":3150,\"height\":1772}},\n\"alt\" : \"A young man plays electric guitar in a garage surrounded by cars and equipment, with dim lighting.\",\n\"path\" : \"\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2025\\\/12\\\/\",\n\"video\" : null,\n\"autoplay\" : null,\n\"youtube\" : null,\n\"youtubelabel\" : \"play\",\n\"brightness\" : 100,\n\"crop\" : null,\n\"background\" : false,\n\"scale\" : 1,\n\"zoom\" : false,\n\"annotations\" : null}<\/script><div class=\"height-container \" style=\"padding-bottom:56.253968253968%;   \"><div class=\"height-container-contents lazy-media-contents\"><div class=\"lazy-media-preview\" style=\"background-image: url('data:image\/jpeg;base64,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'); 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The Tunnels We Dig<\/h3><\/div><\/a><\/li><li class=\"wp-block-ho-lane-item col margin-bottom-5 col-md-3 col-xs-6\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/schirnmag\/schirn-questionnaire-rosa-barba\/\" class=\"wp-block-ho-teaser teaser teaser-magazin-artikel \"><div  class='magazine-teaser'><div class=\"wp-block-ho-post-image \"><figure itemscope itemtype=\"http:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" class=\"lazy-media-inline \" role=\"group\" aria-describedby=\"media_69de31ab5c80a\"><script type=\"application\/json\">{\n\"id\" : 46153,\n\"sizes\" : {\"medium\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Portrait_Rosa_Barba-300x278.jpg\",\"width\":300,\"height\":278,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":21991},\"large\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Portrait_Rosa_Barba-1024x948.jpg\",\"width\":1024,\"height\":948,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":151854},\"medium_large\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Portrait_Rosa_Barba-768x711.jpg\",\"width\":768,\"height\":711,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":97499},\"small\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Portrait_Rosa_Barba-440x407.jpg\",\"width\":440,\"height\":407,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":40400},\"semi\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Portrait_Rosa_Barba-580x537.jpg\",\"width\":580,\"height\":537,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":63432},\"mobile\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Portrait_Rosa_Barba-720x667.jpg\",\"width\":720,\"height\":667,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":88803},\"hd\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Portrait_Rosa_Barba-1280x1185.jpg\",\"width\":1280,\"height\":1185,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":211288},\"original\":{\"file\":\"Schirn_Presse_Portrait_Rosa_Barba.jpg\",\"width\":1500,\"height\":1389}},\n\"alt\" : \"Woman with long, dark hair, a thoughtful expression, and red lips, wearing a checkered top.\",\n\"path\" : \"\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2026\\\/01\\\/\",\n\"video\" : null,\n\"autoplay\" : null,\n\"youtube\" : null,\n\"youtubelabel\" : \"play\",\n\"brightness\" : 100,\n\"crop\" : null,\n\"background\" : false,\n\"scale\" : 1,\n\"zoom\" : false,\n\"annotations\" : null}<\/script><div class=\"height-container \" style=\"padding-bottom:92.6%; 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background-position: 50% 50%; height: 100%; width: 100%;\"><\/div><div class=\"lazy-media loaded\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/01\/Schirn_Presse_Portrait_Rosa_Barba.jpg\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/01\/Schirn_Presse_Portrait_Rosa_Barba.jpg 1500w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/01\/Schirn_Presse_Portrait_Rosa_Barba-300x278.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/01\/Schirn_Presse_Portrait_Rosa_Barba-1024x948.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/01\/Schirn_Presse_Portrait_Rosa_Barba-768x711.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/01\/Schirn_Presse_Portrait_Rosa_Barba-440x407.jpg 440w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/01\/Schirn_Presse_Portrait_Rosa_Barba-580x537.jpg 580w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/01\/Schirn_Presse_Portrait_Rosa_Barba-720x667.jpg 720w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/01\/Schirn_Presse_Portrait_Rosa_Barba-1280x1185.jpg 1280w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 763px) 50vw, (min-width: 764px) and (max-width: 1023px) 25vw, (min-width: 1024px) 25vw\" alt=\"Woman with long, dark hair, a thoughtful expression, and red lips, wearing a checkered top.\" loading=\"lazy\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/figure><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-ho-slot \"><\/div><\/div><div  class='padding-top-3'><div  class='margin-bottom-2 ho-tag-group'><div class=\"is-primary is-small\"><span class=\"ho-tag is-primary is-small\"><span class=\"ho-tag-label\">Interview<\/span><\/span><\/div><\/div><h3 class=\"ho-sd-mag-h5 hyphen\">SCHIRN Questionnaire: Rosa Barba<\/h3><\/div><\/a><\/li><li class=\"wp-block-ho-lane-item col margin-bottom-5 col-md-3 col-xs-6\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/en\/schirnmag\/the-schirn-in-2026\/\" class=\"wp-block-ho-teaser teaser teaser-magazin-artikel \"><div  class='magazine-teaser'><div class=\"wp-block-ho-post-image \"><figure itemscope itemtype=\"http:\/\/schema.org\/ImageObject\" class=\"lazy-media-inline \" role=\"group\" aria-describedby=\"media_69de31ab5ee63\"><script type=\"application\/json\">{\n\"id\" : 44564,\n\"sizes\" : {\"medium\":{\"file\":\"Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-300x149.jpg\",\"width\":300,\"height\":149,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":27151},\"large\":{\"file\":\"Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-1024x510.jpg\",\"width\":1024,\"height\":510,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":201671},\"medium_large\":{\"file\":\"Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-768x383.jpg\",\"width\":768,\"height\":383,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":128230},\"1536x1536\":{\"file\":\"Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-1536x765.jpg\",\"width\":1536,\"height\":765,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":376218},\"2048x2048\":{\"file\":\"Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-2048x1020.jpg\",\"width\":2048,\"height\":1020,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":576362},\"small\":{\"file\":\"Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-440x219.jpg\",\"width\":440,\"height\":219,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":52281},\"semi\":{\"file\":\"Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-580x289.jpg\",\"width\":580,\"height\":289,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":82346},\"mobile\":{\"file\":\"Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-720x359.jpg\",\"width\":720,\"height\":359,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":116402},\"hd\":{\"file\":\"Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-1280x638.jpg\",\"width\":1280,\"height\":638,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":285235},\"full\":{\"file\":\"Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-1920x957.jpg\",\"width\":1920,\"height\":957,\"mime-type\":\"image\\\/jpeg\",\"filesize\":525529},\"original\":{\"file\":\"Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025.jpg\",\"width\":3456,\"height\":1722}},\n\"alt\" : \"Colorful, surreal scenes with warrior figures, a unicorn, and imaginative characters in various poses.\",\n\"path\" : \"\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2025\\\/12\\\/\",\n\"video\" : null,\n\"autoplay\" : null,\n\"youtube\" : null,\n\"youtubelabel\" : \"play\",\n\"brightness\" : 100,\n\"crop\" : null,\n\"background\" : false,\n\"scale\" : 1,\n\"zoom\" : false,\n\"annotations\" : null}<\/script><div class=\"height-container \" style=\"padding-bottom:49.826388888889%; 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background-position: 50% 50%; height: 100%; width: 100%;\"><\/div><div class=\"lazy-media loaded\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-1920x957.jpg\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-1920x957.jpg 1920w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-300x149.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-1024x510.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-768x383.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-1536x765.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-2048x1020.jpg 2048w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-440x219.jpg 440w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-580x289.jpg 580w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-720x359.jpg 720w, https:\/\/www.schirn.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Schirn-Presse_Holly-Herndon-Mat-Dryhurst_Xhairymutantx-2024-2025-1280x638.jpg 1280w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 763px) 50vw, (min-width: 764px) and (max-width: 1023px) 25vw, (min-width: 1024px) 25vw\" alt=\"Colorful, surreal scenes with warrior figures, a unicorn, and imaginative characters in various poses.\" loading=\"lazy\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/figure><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-ho-slot \"><\/div><\/div><div  class='padding-top-3'><div  class='margin-bottom-2 ho-tag-group'><div class=\"is-primary is-small\"><span class=\"ho-tag is-primary is-small\"><span class=\"ho-tag-label\">Context<\/span><\/span><\/div><\/div><h3 class=\"ho-sd-mag-h5 hyphen\">The SCHIRN in 2026<\/h3><\/div><\/a><\/li><\/ul><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/section><\/div>\n<\/section>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>An interview with Lakota-Scottish art historian Carmen Robertson on Land vs Landscape. The first episode of our new podcast series with Indigenous perspectives on art, nature, decolonization and climate change.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"featured_media":16015,"template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"ho_image_focal_point":"","footnotes":""},"ho_exhibition_taxonomy":[3707],"artist":[],"magazin_tag":[1376,1369,1382,1375],"magazin_type":[3538,2010],"involved":[1189,1277,1306,1324],"class_list":["post-16117","magazin-artikel","type-magazin-artikel","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","ho_exhibition_taxonomy-magnetic-north-en","magazin_tag-art-history","magazin_tag-exhibition","magazin_tag-postcolonialism","magazin_tag-society","magazin_type-diskurs-en","magazin_type-podcast-en","involved-carmen-robertson-en","involved-martina-weinhart-en","involved-oriana-fenwick-en","involved-sylvia-cunningham-en"],"acf":{"seo_titel":"Critical Land: Untouched Nature Myth at SCHIRN Frankfurt","seo_description":"Critical land. 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